Just a quick bitch. It bothers me tremendously that Gogol Bordello has popularized the word “Gypsy.” They have non Rromani kids screaming “GYPSY PUNK!” at every turn and seem to be doing little to educate anyone on the history of that word?
If Eugene Hutz, who identifies as Rroma, wants to use that word..thats his choice. I say Gypsy and often refer to myself as a Gypsy in conversations with gadze because its tiring not to, sometimes.
I am wondering what are some of you guys (Rroma and gadze) opinions about this?
Should Gogol Bordello, as a band, stop using the word? Should they try to educate others on the history of the word and explain why gadze fans should think twice before using it?
Dear Hana (danceswithfaeriesunderthemoon),
You’re not getting anywhere in your crusade against ignorance just by picking fights on tumblr. We all understand that you have sooo much more heritage than the rest of us. We’re not all blessed enough to have been born in Spain, or to vacation in…
I am responding to this, despite the fact that it wasnt written to me, because I feel the need to.
First things first, I have never seen Hana pick fights here. I have only followed her for a few months, but in those months, I have not seen her “pick fights” with anyone.
What you gadze do not understand is that sometimes, when faced with ignorant bigotry…or conscious bigotry..sometimes it cuts so deep, and hits us at such an angle..that we HAVE to respond sarcastically, or condescendingly because it is absolutely tiring to constantly type these long winded posts over the SAME EXACT THING over and over again, just because gadze either fail to understand, or choose not to understand. Sometimes we have to make fun of the ignorant. Sometimes we laugh, so that we dont cry.
One line I was struck by in your post, that further illustrated that you just do not get it, was this one: “Let us wish we were Romani, so we could partake in the rich beauty of the life-style. Let us burn insense, get high, live off the land, because we want to. Because we can.”
Being Rromani is not a life-style. Simple. Period. By following that statement with “burn incense, get high, and live off the land” just shows that in your mind, you are still entertaining the idea of “Gypsy” as being some over-romanticized free-spirit, nomadic “life-style.” It isnt. Being Rromani is anything but romantic. Its unfortunate but it is the truth and I hate having to even type those words. They cut like a fucking knife.
Something you wrote after that, disturbed me.
“I get that you’re upset because the Romani people were prosecuted for a long time. Gypsy is a derrogatory term, people don’t really understand what they went through, blah, blah. But they’ve come through that. They’ve come out on top!”
Im sorry…but…what? Obviously you dont “get” anything. The Rromani people were not persecuted “for a long time.” The Rromani people have been persecuted throughout history and ARE STILL PERSECUTED TO THIS VERY DAY. The fact that you followed this statement with “blah, blah, blah” is also disturbing. It shows that you neither understand, nor CARE at all about the plight and persecution of the Rromani peoples. Your next statement shows your sheer ignorance regarding the treatment of Rroma. We have come out on top? Where?
Seriously, where? In Europe my people are treated like stray dogs. In America, you people dont even know we exist and when you are made aware of our existence, and you find out that we are NOT the romantic, picturesque free-spirited, skirt and feather wearing people that you thought we were….its back to dogs. We get a pat on the head, and a “blah, blah blah.” Fuck you.
The fact that you consider a pejorative, bigoted, RACIST word..as something to strive towards (and the fact that you quite obviously do not REALLY believe it to be such. Yeah, youll say you understand to satiate us, but thats about it, right?)…is ridiculous. Another check next to “doesnt FUCKING get it!”
What you people do not understand is that regardless of whether or not its MEANT to be degrading…it is. IT IS DEGRADING. PERIOD. IT IS DEGRADING. PERIOD. IT IS DEGRADING. PERIOD. “GYPSY” IS A DEROGATORY ETHNIC SLUR THAT IS DEGRADING. No matter WHAT the gadze WANT this word to mean…IT IS A DEROGATORY ETHNIC SLUR THAT IS DEGRADING.
My people do not inspire anyone to break away from convention. You peoples INCORRECT ideas about what the word “Gypsy” means inspires gadze to misappropriate a culture because they think its “cool” or maybe its some deep seeded subconscious attempt to be anything but white because youre embarrassed and ashamed at the pain your people have caused us and others.
Who knows?
(Source: unhurried-heart)
- 80 plays
Comment I just got on YouTube:
GET… THE… FUCK… OUT, back to the niggerized backwaters of India, where you originally came from. Take your pickpocketing bastards and syphilis there with you. NKVism3 35 minutes ago
Lolumadbro?
is, in my opinion, The Pariah Syndrome. Read it all. I will warn you, though, that there are graphic descriptions of torture, slavery and death, from the Slavo-Balkan slavery that began in the 1400’s to the Porrajmos, as well as our enslavement in the…
She is. A lot of the information in that book is not accurate, imo. But, I have heard some Rroma say they like it.
Edited to add: I had this book (Bury Me Standing) recommended to me by another Rroma. When I read it..I was ..a little .. surprised. It is an interesting read…reading about a gadzi who spent much time with Rroma. Hancock is referred to a lot in the book…
Its interesting and certainly entertaining. I found it inaccurate a bit. Maybe more than a bit. I found it to be exploitative..or in my opinion, it is exploitative.
“Roma: The Punjabi Immigrants in Europe” is another interesting read. Authors surname is Rishi, an Indian writing on the Rroma and our origins.
It is always best to read books written by Rroma imo, or to speak to Rroma themselves, etc. However, it was interesting to read a book written by a gadzi who spent time and essentially lived among Rroma.
is, in my opinion, The Pariah Syndrome. Read it all. I will warn you, though, that there are graphic descriptions of torture, slavery and death, from the Slavo-Balkan slavery that began in the 1400’s to the Porrajmos, as well as our enslavement in the Americas. I have never been able to read it all at once, myself—it’s too much to handle. Instead, I take it several paragraphs at a time, and then go play with my cat or pick flowers or something.
This is very true. Although I have mixed feelings about Ian Hancock, ‘The Pariah Syndrome’ is probably my #1 recommended reading for gadze. It is an account of the enslavement of the Rromani peoples. In addition to the link provided above, you can also read ‘The Pariah Syndrome’ here (http://reocities.com/Paris/5121/pariah-contents.htm).
If you are a non-Rroma and are interested in learning about our history…this is the first book that I would recommend. I would also advise you to read the “We are the Romani People” by the same author.
Some people recommend “Bury Me Standing” by Isabel Fonseca. I am……a little mixed about this book, though.
(via chaje-shukarije)
and will share what i know if
a) someone’s parent or grandparent was a walking person, or they are disconnected from their culture in some such way (didn’t know they were a walking person until they were older, parent is dead, etc) and they are having difficulty obtaining resources. i will point…
Yes. What the gadje think DOES MATTER. Do you know why? Because for thousands and thousands of fucking years, the gadje have persecuted us, enslaved us, hated is, raped us, burned our houses, erased our names, our culture…this has bled into the present and led to extreme poverty, intolerance, negative stereotypes, pogroms, etc against our people. WHAT THE GADJE THINK ABOUT US CAUSED THIS…SO IF WE CAN EDUCATE THE GADJE..THEN WHAT THEY THINK MIGHT CHANGE…and if the way they think about us CHANGES…then so will the lives of our brothers and sisters who are TRAPPED in a cycle of poverty and intolerance due to WHAT…THE…GADJE…THINK.
Im sorry, but I am fucking tired of seeing people be rude to others WHEN OUR OWN PEOPLE HAVE SUFFERED HORRIBLY AT THE HANDS OF THESE KINDS OF “us vs them” ATTITUDES. Seriously! Fuck! If someone is ignorant…they are simply ignorant. Ignorance and hate are not inherently linked..they do not, inherently, go hand in hand. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge and knowledge is power and always has been.
We can continue being rude to people, and perpetuate negative stereotypes about ourselves..or we can appreciate that people are ACTUALLY TRYING TO LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT US, instead of relying on tropes and stereotypes.
I refuse to be rude to anyone who comes to me asking for help, knowledge, or education. I will not call you names. I will not insult you. Yes, I am Rroma and you are gadje….we are DIFFERENT…and thats ok…but we cant fight hatred with hatred…we cant fight intolerance with intolerance. We cant fight bigotry and prejudice with bigotry and prejudice.
I identify with those who thirst for knowledge..because I thirst for knowledge. I am Rroma..but I can tell you about the Berbers, the Dogon…I can tell you about Shaktism and Shaivism and Vaisnavism, and Islam, and Protestant Christianity. I can tell you about the Sumerians and quote from the Enuma Elish…I know the Tanakh like the back of my hand…and none of these are “mine” but I ADORE them….because I adore knowledge..and any human on the path of knowledge I can identify with. Im not going to call someone names and insult them because of their ignorance. Im not going to call names and insult someone when they ask for help. I cant perpetuate and take part in an “us vs them” cycle that has hurt our people for decades. …and I am not sorry for that.
Damn gadje, get it!
danceswithfaeriesunderthemoon:
It makes me sad when I think about the fact that millions of Rromani youth do not know our language(s) and culture because of gadje antiziganism and prejudice making it “shameful” to be Rroma.
When someone hides the…
As much as I appreciate the reblogs…I wish they didnt exist..I wish people didnt have to have stories similar to mine. My grandparents on my moms side also hid their ethnicity. I didnt know my grandfather…but my grandmother was pretty fierce about protecting her ethnic identity and keeping it secret. She and her mother were nomadic..until her mother took ill and she (grandmother) took care of her brothers and sisters. Once my grandmother started a family..she stayed in one house her whole life hahahaha. The reason her family moved was due to poverty and…the fucking cycle. Its all just…ridiculous and it makes my chest hurt. Ugh.
edit: I didnt know my grandfather because he passed away when I was 2, not because he was voluntarily not in my life.
It makes me sad when I think about the fact that millions of Rromani youth do not know our language(s) and culture because of gadje antiziganism and prejudice making it “shameful” to be Rroma.
When someone hides the fact that theyre Rromani. Its the fault of the gadje. Some people might get mad at me for saying this…I am not sorry.
Gadje….YOU have shamed us for thousands of years. YOU have discriminated against us, hated us, been intolerant towards us, and murdered and erased our identity for thousands of years. When a young Rromani hides their ethnic identity, doesnt know their language…or DOESNT EVEN KNOW THEYRE RROMANI…its your fault. Really, ask yourself who the fucking thieves are.
/rant.
I get like this every time I begin my ancestry research. I feel like the gadje ROBBED me.
"Hello, my name is Adam and I've recently begun educating myself about Romani culture and history and I have a question I hope you may answer. Why do some (seemingly legitimate) websites say "gypsy" is an okay term to use, some say it is not preferred, and some say it is completely racist? Obviously, upon learning that it did have a racist meaning, I will not to use it, but I was interested if you perhaps knew why this was. Thank you." - arkoalahug
Hi Adam! I am really happy to hear that youve begun educating yourself on Rromani culture and history. The origin of the term ‘gypsy’ is, in itself, not inherently racist. It came from the Greek word for “Egyptian” and was used to describe the Rroma due to the incorrect assumption that we originated, or came from, Egypt. However, the history of the word is a much more intolerant one. The word has been, sort of, ‘taken back’ by some Rroma. The views regarding this word are as diverse as we are. In my experience, I find a lot of us use the word to refer to ourselves and our people (although I try not to), but when the gadje (non Rroma) use it…it is often out of ignorance and noneducation. The term ‘gypsy’ IS a pejorative and has been used to mock the Rroma culture, romanticize it, misappropriate it, among other things. Other pejorative terms and slurs have come from the word gypsy…like “gypped” and “gyppo.” So, in my opinion, as a Rromni…I do not believe that use of the word is an indication of racism in itself, at least not by definition in that a great number of people are using the word out of pure ignorance of its origins, meanings, and ultimately out of ignorance of the Rroma people and our plight. So, a lot of people who use the term are doing so ignorantly and may NOT be doing so in a racist way at all, and may not be racist at all. When finding that someone has used the word, I educate them on its origins. I do not call them names or assume the worst about them. I see its use as an opportunity to educate another person about my people, our history, culture, etc. Name calling generally only serves to make one defensive and doesnt get the point across well. We have a saying “mashkar le gadje leski chib si le Rromani zor” which means “surrounded by gadje (non Rroma)…a Rroms only defense is his tongue (speech).” So I try to use my speech to educate. :) I hope this has helped!
To make it short..its best not to use the word, haha. I personally prefer “Rroma” or “Rromani.”
This article is from http://www.gypsyjournal.com/Chapter.asp?ChapterID=1940, however, I found it to be EXACTLY how I feel, right down to the paternal Nordic heritage! Haha. Its a great read. If youre Rroma, or gadje….read it!
“In addition to the more socially ‘visible’ minority groups in the United States, there are less socially visible racial and ethnic groups that tend to be smaller in population size, and lumped under or assumed to be part of the larger more socially recognizable groups. Few adults and children have any accurate knowledge about the Romani people. While for many the words “Roma” and “Romani” might be new, stereotypical images of Gypsies are rampant throughout the world. These include: dark earringed men, exotic women in colorful skirts, barefoot people dancing around campfires, caravans, violins, tambourines, palm reading, and crystal balls. Gypsies are perceived as carefree, romantic, and mysterious wanderers. They are also negatively stereotyped as thieves, child-stealers, and criminals.
The word “Gypsy” comes from the Middle Ages. At the time, the darker-skinned Romani people were mistakenly thought to have come from Egypt. Thus, they were called “Egyptians”, then “Gyptians,” and eventually “Gypsies.” While Gypsies are too often seen as anybody who follows a so-called Gypsy lifestyle (as presented in popular culture and literature), the designation “Romani” helps stress that the group is a genuine ethnic minority with its own culture, customs, history, and language.
It is estimated that more than 12 million Romani live throughout the world. The European Romani population is estimated to be between 7 million and 8.5 million. Of this number, about 5 million live in Central and Eastern Europe. It is difficult to obtain accurate numbers of Romani populations, however, since many are not recorded in official census counts. In most countries, the Romani population is much larger than is generally known. Many people conceal their Romani identity-a cautionary tactic learned through centuries of persecution. Romani in North America have been called the hidden minority, because they remain largely invisible among the many ethnic groups.
I am what I would call an ‘invisible minority’, which is to say that I am invisible to the ethnic perception of the white racial groups and are therefore treated as a ‘white’ person. This puts me in a category all by myself. No one is ever quite sure what to make of my ethnic identity and it is usually assumed to be anything from Italian to Native American to Persian to Greek, (something I usually don’t correct, unless I know the person, as I’ve found that explaining that Gypsies are not only real, but also an actual ethnic group is lost on most and requires more energy than I care to expend on the casual onlooker). And, since most people classify ethnicity by skin color, (and mine is fairly pale, thanks to my paternal Nordic heritage,) I can choose to skate by as ‘white’ without much protest, should I ever decide that I needed to. There is also the fact that I live in the United States, which, while there is still racism here, it’s a walk in the park compared to other parts of the world, particularly Eastern Europe (where I wouldn’t be wise to reveal my actual ethnicity, as they’re rather fond of beating, sterilizing and killing Gypsy women over there).
In any case, for these reasons I wouldn’t classify myself as a ‘minority’, even though that would technically be correct. While I don’t necessarily take offense to people in my position who do use the term, I do find it to be somewhat ridiculous, because even though technically the word ‘minority’ means ‘a group differing, esp. in race, religion, or ethnic background, from the majority of a population’, I think the perception is that those who are minorities also have to contend with a considerable amount of racism, based solely on their physical appearance. As I have yet to find this to be true in my own personal experience, using such a ‘charged’ word seems to imply a lot more than simply that my heritage is not of Caucasian origin. On the flip side, however, I do take offense to being referred to as ‘white’, since ethnically I am not. My objection to that term is also out of respect for my darker-skinned ancestors, {something I don’t have to go very far back to find, since my mother is darker-skinned and an obvious ‘minority’). So, I suppose you could say that my feelings on this issue lie somewhere in the middle… I’m not ‘white’ and will never identify as ‘white’, {choosing ‘Middle Eastern’ on census forms when asked) but I don’t consider myself a minority, in the Americanized sense of the word.”
source: http://www.gypsyjournal.com/Chapter.asp?ChapterID=1940
So, today I opened my YouTube and noticed I had new comments. They were from one person and said:
“Cigan, Ciganka, Cigos, Gypsy. Whatever you call yourself your people and your culture is filth. There is NOTHING to be proud of in your bullshit blood. Go back to pakistan where you orginate from and take your tribe with you, noone in Europe wants you, and noone in Europe likes you!”
“We do not care if you are half, or can pass as European (white). You are tainted and forever deserve to rot with the rest of them. Europe doesnt want you, North America doesnt want you. Noone wants you.”
